Tape #392, Side B Date: 1O/22/92
DAVIS: SYLVIA DAVIS
BROWN: ALICE BROWN
(BEGINNING OF SIDE B)
DAVIS: I'm not sure, unless Paige was going to do the family therapy
with you,
that you will be doing family therapy today...
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS: . . .because Debbie is sick.
BROWN Uh, huh.
DAVIS: She's not sick. She's had a family emergency.
BROWN Uh, huh.
DAVIS: So, um, did anybody tell you about that?
BROWN: No.
DAVIS: My assumption is that the session will be ca...canceled.
BROWN: Will we have one at all this week?
DAVIS: Very unlikely, given that I'm going to be out of town
tomorrow and that
Debbie is not expected back that quick, so it probably will be
scheduled for
next week.
BROWN: All right.
DAVIS: Had you had anything you wanted to do there today
BROWN. I don't think so. I was just going to kind of see what
came up.
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DAVIS. What came up?
BROWN: No, just kind of see if anything did come up.
DAVIS: From whom?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: From whom?
BROWN: From Mom.
DAVIS: From Mom?
BROWN: Yeah, or from Carol.
DAVIS: Huh.
BROWN: But, I hadn't, I kind of just wanted to talk about
discharge and stuff like
that and how, how scared I am about it.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. With them?
BROWN Yeah.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And kind of talk a little bit about what the separation is
going to be like...
DAVIS: Mm, hm.
BROWN . . . because Carol and I have been on the same unit
now for a month.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN And it's going to be difficult for me to leave, you know,
and not see her
again.
DAVIS: But, you. or some other parts who have been triggered by her,
it might turn
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out to be a good thing.
BROWN: Yeah. But I, as Alice, am really going to miss her.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Yeah. I think it's appropriate to start your terminating process
with them
because it might be, you know, a while before you get to see them
again
after you do discharge
BROWN: And I kind of feel like, you know, I've been here for a
while and...
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: ...everything, and my mom has missed so much. I feel like
I've changed,
and she's missed so much...
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: ...of that.
DAVIS: What do you want to tell her about your changes?
BROWN I don't really feel like she knows me anymore.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: Just that, you know, I'm 13 now and I feel like I'm older,
you know, and
I'm making more decisions for myself now.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And it's hard not to have a mother (inaudible).
DAVIS: Uh, huh. But some of your parts might think it might be
pretty easy not to
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have an abuser with you. (UI) That will be something you will
need for them.
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Is the original Alice here?
BROWN: Yeah. And I think that maybe when, when I go to my
residence or somewhere that maybe I can live in a house and learn what
a real mother's supposed to be.
DAVIS: Well, I think probably you knew what a real mom was supposed
to be like, didn't you, except for, and what a real dad was supposed
to be like, except or when they do drink, or do, you know, ordinary
abuse, fighting and stuff (inaudible):
BROWN. Uh, huh.
DAVIS So even you were coming from a dysfunctional family.
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Even you, your memories have that.
BROWN Yeah.
DAVIS: And so, it might not be a bad thing for you to focus on that
for a few years with your new parents, whoever it's going to be, what
is it like being, uh, a child of an alcoholic? What's it like being
given yourself uh, drugs yourself when you're a kid? Do you have any
memory of that? Has it been shared with you yet?
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BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS: Do you realize that you'll probably be pretty susceptible to
being an
alcoholic if you drink?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS Uh, huh. Or a drug addict if you do any of those things?
BROWN: (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: (UI) in school. . .
DAVIS: Mm, hm. So those are things...and plus just kind of learning
how to trust
people that you're going to be with for a few years.
BROWN. Uh, huh.
DAVIS: Or maybe until you graduate. Those things will keep you
very busy, even
if you're not working on the dissociated stuff. I do, I do hope
that lots of your parts will be invited to be observing and learning
with you about what this other life is like.
BROWN: They're scared that when they go to this residential
place, some of them, you know, they're scared that it's going to be
like they're not going to be sober anymore and they're gonna get
drugged again.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Or going to be drugged again?
BROWN Or they'll take drugs again
DAVIS: Well, I don't think, think CPS really makes any money off
selling drugs to
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kids or anything, so I don't think that you'll be drugged. Now
whether or
not they take drugs will certainly be an interesting thing to
work on.
Would you like to add that to your list, that there would
be drug
counseling because I have taken drugs and been drugged in
the past?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Why don't you write that on your sheet right now of
things that you want?
BROWN: (Inaudible) I was going to call Alice tonight, Alice...
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: ...tonight and see if she wanted to talk to me about thatÖ
DAVIS: Maybe you ought to turn the corner down on that so you could
find it
easier. Do you need counseling for sexual abuse? Have you had
enough
memories of that? Do you have enough, uh...yeah? And if you
want
somebody to teach you what being a good mother and a good dad
is about,
then maybe you ought to write that so that they know that you
want
somebody who will be there for the long run.
(Long pause)
BROWN. (Inaudible)
DAVIS Uh, huh. And you could, should ask her specifically,
maybe, can you get,
she get you a class that has all this stuff.
BROWN: Is, is it (inaudible)? Is it going to be like.. .I don't
know how to ask this
question. (Inaudible) Never mind. I'll think of it.
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DAVIS: Well, just stumble around with it and maybe I can ma. .
.make guesses and
help you get it out.
BROWN: Is it going to be like a place where other kids are there
that are going to be
there for a long time?
DAVIS: I think so.
BROWN: Or is it going to be like...?
DAVIS: Where people are coming and going all the time9
What do you want it to
be?
BROWN. Well, I really didn't think about that very much.
DAVIS: Why don't you ask her that? You should write that down as a
question.
Are you going to need bars on the window to keep your parts
from going
out and hunting for cult meetings?
BROWN: I'm gonna have to think about that.
DAVIS: Oh.
BROWN: I think I want it that way, though.
DAVIS: Huh?
BROWN: I think I want it that way, though.
DAVIS: Oh.
BROWN: Or windows like that.
DAVIS. Windows that lock so you can't get out.
BROWN I'll think about that later.
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DAVIS: So your mind is focused really on this pretty much?
BROWN: And about my dad.
DAVIS: What about him now
BROWN: Just the same old stuff I'm angry at him. I told Dr.
Walling today when I
talked to himÖ
DAVIS: Mm,hm.
BROWN: . . .that I was really mad at him.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And I hated him. I hated what he did to my family.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And I told him that I didn't like that all this stuff
happened and now that
we have to be separated for a while. But if I think about it,
it wasn't all my
step dad. I can't blame it all on him.
DAVIS: No. There were two people, or so your mom says, who came
from cult
families. Both of them. So, you know.
BROWN: It just doesn't make any sense, though, that he doesn't
want to get out. I
mean, he's resisting it.
DAVIS: It doesn't?
BROWN Well, it doesn't for me, you know, because 1 thought he
was a good
person It doesn't make sense anymore just to stay that way.
DAVIS Mm, hm.
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BROWN: It's just...it's sick.
DAVIS: But you know some parts that want to stay that way.
GAUTHTER: Yeah. But, still, I mean. . .
DAVIS: So his parts are, his parts that want to stay with,
uh, these activities that
you all describe, the pornography and the abuse and so on, are
stronger
than the ones who don't.
BROWN: It's sad.
DAVIS: Yeah. It's kind of sad for him. He's in his 40's somewhere,
isn't he?
Pushing 50?
BROWN: Forty.
DAVIS Uh, huh. Is it going to be sad for you, too? .
BROWN: No, because I want to go back into therapy when I'm
older. I don't want
to stay...I don't want to stay like this. I mean, I, I th...I
don't know. My, I
see myself you know, staying a teenager forever. I don't ever
picture
myself having my own house and driving my own car. I always
picture
somebody taking care of me.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And it's, it's weird, because, I mean, I have never
pictured myself as an
adult, never.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN I don't know why.
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DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN It's just never happened. That is so weird. And, you know,
other people
say, "Well, you know, when I grow up, blah, blah,
blah," you know.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: Stuff like that. And I say, "Well, I can only see
myself in college."
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN And even when I see myself in college, I'm still living with somebody and
somebody's still taking care of me.
DAVIS. Uh, huh.
BROWN I never see myself driving I never see myself living by
myself I never see
myself you know, getting married or anything like that.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: I always see myself being taken care of by somebody.
DAVIS: Uh huh.
BROWN: And that is so weird, and I don't know why. I don't know
why it's that
way. Did you ever have problems seeing yourself as an adult?
DAVIS: No, to tell you the truth. But I've heard of other
people that that was true
of.
BROWN: Oh. I don't understand why. It's kind of like, I really
don't want to get
older.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
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BROWN: You know?
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: I wonder if it's that way for my sister, too. But she's
told me that she sees
herself as an adult...
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And growing up and having a job and, you know, all that
stuff
DAVIS: Uh, huh. I don't know, maybe some of your parts inside know
about that.
It may be that you really are not interested in being an adult
and that, uh,
on some unconscious level, it's just, like you said, you don't
want to do
that
BROWN: But, I know I can't stay 15, or whatever, forever. I mean,
it's just not
going to happen.
DAVIS: Well, but there's something to be said for taking things one
day at a time and one year at a time also.
BROWN: Maybe it's because my dad always drove into my head that
I didn't hive to
think that far ahead. I don't know'.
DAVIS: Really?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: What was that about9
BROWN Well, I used to talk about, once in a while I would say,
you know', "I want
to go to Texas A&M," or whatever, you know, and he'd
say. ...
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DAVIS Mm,hm.
BROWN: ... "Well, you don't need to be thinking about that.
You're not going there
any time soon. Think about today and tomorrow and, you know,
being in
high school," or something, whatever. And I'd be like,
"Why?," you know.
I don't know. Maybe that has something to do with it.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: I don't know.
DAVIS: When you were a little girl, you don't remember wanting to grow
up and
be a mommy?
BROWN: No. I remember growing, wanting to grow up and be like my
older sister.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: And grow up and be like, you know, have a boyfriend and wear
makeup
and stuff. But, I don't ever remember dreaming of having a
husband or
having a baby or anything.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: I never played with dolls when I was little very much at all.
DAVIS Uh, huh.
BROWN: And that's, I guess maybe that's because I, my mom was never
real for me
very much.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.
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DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: It's just so weird.
DAVIS: Well, it's a curious thing. That's funny because I was
wondering about
some future projection kinds of things myself, like I've been
thinking a lot
about your parts that haven't come into therapy.
BROWN: Yeah?
DAVIS. And what they'll feel like isolated someplace away with
no contact with
anybody that's cult. No way to get to meetings, missing anniversaries and
holidays and chances to be special and missing chances to
be abused and so
on. I wonder what that's going to be like for those that
really believe in the
cult philosophy. To be away from all of that.
BROWN: It will probably be real, make them real angry .
DAVIS Would they like to have a turn in therapy today, I
wonder?
BROWN: Some of them do. (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Will it be okay to give them a little turn now?
Shall I put the pen
up here, what do you think? So it doesn't get, you know,
pulverized when
they squeeze it or something. Wonder if the deepest, deepest
parts who
really invest to go on and believe in cult messages and wonder
what they're
thinking about with the State of Texas filing to have you all
some place
away and not have any contact with family members, maybe even
an
assumed name or something. I'm just wondering what they feel
about the
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prospect of having the next five years away from meetings
and away from
anybody else who would know what the signals would be.
Missing the
holidays, the rituals. How are you all dealing with
this? Hi! Thanks for
coming. Would you like to talk about this a little bit? Can I
help you
figure out how it's going to be for you?
BROWN: I hate it.
DAVIS: You're going to hate it? How come?
BROWN: Because I want to go back.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. What will you miss?
BROWN: Being special.
DAVIS: Being special. Tell me about how special you are. How they
helped you
feel special. Can you? Just (UI), I'm not asking for secrets,
I'm just
asking what did they do that made you feel special and
important?
BROWN: I got a crown.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Is it in storage now or something?
BROWN: I don't know.
DAVIS: Is it your own personal crown
BROWN: I don't know.
DAVIS Wait a minute. If it's not your own personal crown, how
special can it be
if you just pass this around from head to head?
BROWN It wasn't passed around.
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DAVIS: Were you the only one ever to use that crown?
BROWN: Yes.
DAVIS: What happened to it after?
BROWN: They took it away.
DAVIS: How do you know it wasn't used for somebody else then?
BROWN: I don't know.
DAVIS: Oh, I see, like the Queen and Princess of England and all,
all those folks,
when they had a crown, that's their crown. They made new
crowns for
them. Was it a pretty crown? Gold or silver or...? Yeah?
Jewels? Uh,
huh. What else?
BROWN. That's all.
DAVIS Just a crown?
BROWN: That's the only attention I ever got.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Are you aware that regular people sometimes get to
have things
that are special.
BROWN: What do you mean?
DAVIS: Well, for example, when I was in high school, well, I got
pinned for
National Merit Honor Society, okay. That meant that I had such
good
grades and I was one of the top ones at school for grades for,
you know,
smarts. And, so, I had a pin and I could wear it on my
sweater, and so
everybody knew that I was one of those. I was special, and I
didn't even
15
have to keep it a secret. People could look at it and know,
"She's smart
She gets good grades." Um, when I was in third grade, I'm
skipping back
a little bit now, I got an award, a ribbon, and it said third
prize on it. I still
have it. Okay, and it was third prize for a poster that I
drew, a poppy
poster contest for Veteran's Day. You know how.. .I don't
know, maybe
you haven't been around where kids and adults would sell paper
poppies,
red poppies, for Veterans, to raise money for Veterans who had
been hurt
in the war. And they had a contest and I did a poster and I
got an award
for it. I got my name in the newspaper for everybody to read.
That I was
a good artist and put together a good poster. And, then also
when I was in
high school, I did art work that was submitted to contests,
and I got
awards for my art work. Sometimes first place, sometimes
second,
sometimes special merit. And these were neat things to have.
BROWN Uh, huh.
DAVIS: I also, for a while, belonged to a girls' organization, and
we had little comb
tiaras, small crowns, that you could wear with formals. And
you got to
give speeches when people would be coming into the girls' club
and stuff,
and then we'd take your promise of office and stuff like that.
And we
could invite boys to come to our dances and stuff. Let's see,
what other
kinds of awards were there? Shoot, there were awards for
writing. There
were, sometimes there were awards at the school for good
work of this and
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that. Awards for service. service organizations have awards
also. People
can keep these awards and put them on their wall. As a matter
of fact, the
walls of my office have my certifications and so on,
which means that the
State of Texas approves me to be a license professional
counselor. It
means that the American Board of Examiners approves me to be a
psycho
dramatist anywhere in the world, that's all over the world.
I've got one
that helps me, that says that I'm qualified to help people
with addiction
problems. I got another one that says I'm qualified for family
therapy.
These are like certificates of importance in the profession
Dr. Peterson, of
course, got a real hot one that says she's a Ph.D. There's an
award in our
profession I hope somebody in our practice will get one day.
It's the
Wilbur Cornelius Award for contribution to the field of
multiple personality
disorders. Cornelia Wilbur was a lady, she was the author of
like, The
Three Faces of Eve. You know that book?
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS Okay. So she was one of the first people to discover
multiple personality
disorders. And how people get it from early age trauma. And so
every
year at the conference in Chicago. somebody gets a big award
for kind of
contributing to knowledge in the field about multiples and how
special they
are. So I just would like for you to know there are lots of
ways to feel
special other than the one that you're using now. And you are
a bright and
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talented and attractive young lady Now, I don't know why
you can't earn
yourself as many awards and march in as many parades and get
as much
special honors and badges and ribbons and crowns and hoopla as
you could
possibly want. You may have to give up one kind but you could
get
another kind if you wanted to. And you might even find that
the other kind
would be better because you could show it around to people. I mean,
when you got the crown with the cult, would you get to go to
school and
say, "Hey, I got a crown last night?" What is the
fun of being special if
nobody notices? Will you help me understand that?
BROWN: It doesn't make any sense.
DAVIS: It doesn't make sense at all. I'm special, boy. I want
people congratulating
me and say, "Hey, heard you got the award. Let me see
your badge and let
me see your pin," and, "J read about you in the
newspaper. I'm so glad for
you," and, "Oh, I'm so jealous. I worked so hard to
get that and you got
it." No fun to be special and nobody knows it.
BROWN Uh, huh. They knew it.
DAVIS: Who?
BROWN Mom and Dad and Rick, Carol and Rick.
DAVIS: Uh, huh Do you think your mom would be proud of you if
you got some
of these other kind of awards?
BROWN Uh, huh
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DAVIS: She bragged on you once about the school award you
got. You know the
one I'm talking about?
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS: She was very pleased about that. Now. I don't know if
that was you that
earned that. That was Alice that earned that. Uh, well, I know
that she
gets pleased with that. What did she say when you wore the
crown? Did
she say, "Good for you?"
BROWN She couldn't.
DAVIS. She couldn't? And how do you know she thinks it was a
good deal?
BROWN: She had one, too.
DAVIS: Why couldn't she say?
BROWN: I don't know. She didn't. Nobody ever did.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. So you're not real sure about the honor then?
You know this
Barbara Stuart stuff?
BROWN: (Inaudible)
DAVIS: You what? Are you high enough up your system or far
enough down,
however you want to say it, to know about Barbara Stuart?
BROWN. A little bit. Not really.
DAVIS: Not really. What do you know about her?
BROWN: She's part of the history, like, I don't know, she was
somebody great.
DAVIS: Yeah. She was one of the queens of England.
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BROWN: Barbara, Queen of Scot.
DAVIS: Oh, Barbara, Queen of Scot. Very good. You have a Barbara Stuart
inside?
BROWN: Uh, huh. She never comes out, though.
DAVIS: Now, Barbara, Queen of Scot, or Barbara Stuart, I hope you know
that you
could just be proud of being related to The Queen of Scot. You
don't
necessarily have to be proud of the cult connections.
BROWN: She was cult, too.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. I don't know if she was cult or not. She may have
been or it may
have been a trick. I don't know if you guys are aware that the
cult does
sometimes, like Russia always did, they invent things. The
whole country
of Russia, the USSR, would claim inventions that Americans had
made.
Like Benjamin Franklin invented, or discovered how to use
electricity.
Well, I don't know who the Russian is that they say did it,
but for a long
time the Russian history books said that one of their guys
conquered
electricity. And Alexander Graham Bell, you know, how he's the
one who
invented the telephone in this country? They've got some
Russian that
they claim invented the telephone.
BROWN: How' do we know that they didn't, that we're not claiming
that we did it?
DAVIS: Well, that's an interesting question. I guess there was so much
verification,
and if you look in the history of where the telephones appeared first.
But,
that's an intelligent question for checking it out. But, my point
is, if a
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whole country like Russia could lie and claim that they invented
these
things and lots of other things also. They just
totally changed history.
Then how do you know the cult didn't invent, Barbara Stuart was
cult? The
original one, the important one was Barbara, Queen of
Scot9
BROWN: You couldn't.
DAVIS: Yes, you could. Now I don't know if they did or didn't,
you see. But I do
know Barbara, Queen of Scot, Barbara Stuart was Barbara, Queen of Scot.
And
that's, you know, everybody validates that all over the world.
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS So your Barbara Stuart inside wants something to be proud of
she could be
proud of that.
BROWN: I have a question.
DAV1S Uh, huh.
BROWN: How would Barbara Stuart inside be able to say that she was
proud?
DAVIS: Well, when you're talking about, people sometimes talk
about where did
your family come from. Were you partly French or English or
Irish? Then
she could say that, uh, you all were descendants of Barbara,
Queen of Scot.
BROWN: (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Uh, huh. And it's true you don't work it into every
conversation. Like,
"How are you today? What would you like for your
breakfast? Did you
know I'm a descendant from Barbara, Queen of Scot?" The
classy thing is to
21
be subtle about it, you know. It's when people are talking
about Scot's
plaid or something, "Oh, what a pretty plaid in your
skirt." "It's got the
same colors as our family crest of Barbara, Queen of
Scot, but our pattern's a
little different." You kind of work it in subtle. If it
matters to you.
BROWN: Yes, it does.
DAVIS: It does? Well, I think it's pretty neat, too. I would
mention that part if it
was for my benefit.
BROWN: Mommy had a plaid hanging in the hallway. Is it true that
everybody had a
different plaid?
DAVIS: All different plaids, yeah. That's true.
BROWN: How do they do that?
DAVIS: Well, they just did. They have bigger or smaller lines and
patterns and stuff
like that. I don't know.
BROWN: That's weird.
DAVIS: Why?
BROWN: I don't know. I just think plaid is weird.
DAVIS: Why?
BROWN: Just the way it is.
DAVIS: Huh. What's weird about it?
BROWN: The way all the different colors go (inaudible).
DAVIS: Uh, huh We don't have a whole lot longer for the session.
Anybody else
22
want a turn with any feelings about anybody down deeper
wondering how it's going to be?
BROWN: Yeah, but they don't want to come up.
DAVIS: Is it okay if I talk to them?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Yeah. Can they listen up? Can they come up far enough to
hear?
BROWN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Yeah? Okay. You guys are on your way out. but it's
interesting in a way
you'll have less contact with anybody who's ever been cult
probably than
you've ever had in your life.
BROWN: Even in here?
DAVIS: Even in here, yes. You have lots of folks who go on to the cult here.
BROWN: Even, even if you (inaudible)?
DAVIS: Uh, huh. That's right. I know.
BROWN Does that happen a lot?
DAVIS In different hospitals, you mean?
BROWN: Uh, huh
DAVIS: Well, there are more here than other places.
BROWN: I mean people here recognize people here being a problem.
DAVIS Oh, yeah. And I wondered if the guys down below just
figured they were
going to hang out and maybe see if they found anybody when
they're 18 or
23
so or. I wonder what people's hope is if they're going to
cast adrift without
anybody to be the master.
BROWN They're scared.
DAVIS: They're scared? Is that what they're telling you?
BROWN: It's out of control.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Well, I don't know, maybe they can find a dope
addict to control,
or dope dealer to control themselves. It won't be cult, but at
least it would
be somebody telling them what to do. That's probably their
best hope.
Maybe an alcoholic boyfriend or something like that.
BROWN: (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Uh, huh Do these guys grow up feeling like that? Some of
them will just
take anybody to be a master?
BROWN: Not just anybody.
DAVIS: Well, that's what I'm talking about, just anybody. Just
the dope feigns or
somebody like that.
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS: Well, they're going to have a long wait for a master out
there. I wonder if
they're going into hibernation like a bear going into a cave
or if they're
going to hang out and see what regular life is like.
BROWN: They're going to see what regular life is like.
DAV1S Yeah, well. I think that'll be good for them.
24
BROWN: Will you ever talk to me again?
DAVIS When you go away? I have no idea you're going to be
going.
BROWN: If I stay in Houston will you talk to me again?
DAVIS: I don't know. I would have to visit with CPS and Dr.
Peterson about that.
Your new therapist might not like that idea because it would
be, you now,
me keeping in contact with you and me not getting in the way
of starting a
new bonding with the new therapist.
BROWN: But still, when I get out of here, I can go in Peterson's
office and you'll
still be there.
DAVIS: Who knows. We'll all still be there. I won't ever forget
you, Alice. You
are indelible.
BROWN. I mean, like, when Doctor, how long do you think you'll
be in Dr.
Peterson's office?
DAVIS: Why? Probably until I retire.
BROWN: That's a long way away, huh?
DAV1S Quite a ways, yeah. But we're probably should terminate
when we leave
here, simply because to think that kind of thing sort of leads
to denying the
void that you're going to be going away. And I don't know
where they
will place you. They may place you halfway across the state.
It's a very
big state, you know. This state is as big as many states and
they may place
you very far away.
25
BROWN: Or outside the state.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. That's possible, too. I think you've written about
it right here
that, how all these people have been helping you for a very
long time and
how you should just let go. But one thing I know is that
incomplete
terminations prevent new beginnings.
BROWN: What do you mean?
DAVIS: They get in the way. Like when people have boyfriends, and
they get new
boyfriends, and the old ones get in the way, you know. It's
better to say
good-bye and to lose people and leave them.
BROWN: What about Kristi? Will I get to say good-bye to her?
DAVIS: No, I don't think so. Kristi Carl, you mean? We've lost a
page here, I
think. Maybe that's just how you started it. Okay. You've
brought drugs
into the house?
BROWN: Sometimes. So does Carol,
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: I don't what was going on, you know.
DAVIS: What's what?
BROWN: (Inaudible) what was going on.
DAVIS: Uh, huh. Why is it that you didn't have to go for detoxing
here at the
hospital? When was the last time you did drugs?
BROWN: On my first day.
26
DAVIS: The day you came in here? What did you take?
BROWN: Acid.
DAVIS: Did you take acid often?
BROWN: I don't know.
DAVIS: Did you ever take any after you came into the hospital?
BROWN: Huh, uh. Never had a chance to.
DAVIS Uh, huh.
BROWN: My dad tried to put it in my toothpaste.
DAVIS: How do you know that?
BROWN: Because he planned to do it and he told me about it. That is
why I was so
upset they took my toothpaste away.
DAVIS: I don't think they found any acid in the toothpaste, Alice.
They found
only regular stuff in the toothpaste.
BROWN: He said he was going to put it in there.
DAVIS: Uh, huh.
BROWN: (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Somebody inside?
BROWN: Uh, huh.
DAVIS: By him. Did he give you drugs sometimes?
BROWN: Not while I was here.
DAVIS Uh, huh. It's interesting to think that your parts, I
hope they're still
27
listening real hard. Interesting to think you guys going
off and you just
decide to just kind of hold on to the cult secrets and stuff
so that you get
back involved with the cult someday. I have this picture of
what it would
be like for you if for example, your mom keeps trucking along
and
working on therapy, including her cult parts, and parts she
says are cult
that are still coming out, And she's always talking about
writing a book.
Wouldn't it be interesting if she wrote about all the secrets
(inaudible)?
BROWN She's not going to (inaudible).
DAVIS Who are you going to tell them to then?
BROWN (Inaudible)
DAVIS: Huh?
BROWN I'm hoping I can write a book.
DAVIS: Huh? You won't be in touch with them anymore.
BROWN: After (inaudible).
DAVIS: No. I don't know if she is going to wait on that.
BROWN (Inaudible)
DAV1S I think that she will be, yes. And I think she will
(inaudible). She's very
afraid of being killed. And for her to be around somebody
who's not safe
would be kind of suicidal. That is as straight of an answer as
I can give
you. I will also tell you. . .
(END OF SIDE B)
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