Tape #379, Partial A & Side B Date: 9/4/1992

Certain patient names in this text have been changed by request.

Tape #379, Partial A & Side B Date: 9/4/1992

DAVIS: SYLVIA DAVIS
BROWN: ALICE BROWN
UI:  UNINTELLIGIBLE
   (Beginning of Side A)
1 DAVIS: Okay. Talk to me.
2 BROWN: Can I tell you about what happened this morning, first?
3 DAVIS: You can say whatever you want. This is your time.
4 BROWN: Well, this morning. DR. SEWARD walked onto the unit and
5  I asked him if I could go to school.
6 DAVIS: Hm hmmm.
7 BROWN: I was talking unit school, because I knew I was on UR
8  and I knew I couldn't go across the way.
9 DAVIS: Hm hmmm.
10 BROWN: And so, I asked him, can I go to school? And then he
11  said I was manipulating. I don't know if he thought I
12  wanted to go across the courtyard or what.
13 DAVIS: And what did you do to clarify the situation and
14  understand what he meant?
15 BROWN: I don't know. He just said, but you're manipulating.
16  And I said, can I talk to you? And he said, sooner or
17  later. And then he went over to the chart room on Unit
18  E.
19 DAVIS: Well, I guess that you'll have your session and have a
20  chance to straighten it out later

1

1 BROWN: But it just, (sigh), it was just so weird that he would
2  say that. Cause I wasn't manipulating. I wanted to
3  know if I could go to school.
4 DAVIS: And you wanted to go to school on the unit here?
5 BROWN: Yeah. I wanted to go to unit school.
6 DAVIS: Well, let's talk about that a little bit.
7 BROWN: What do you mean?
8 DAVIS: Let's talk about why you wanted to go to unit school
9  and still, evidently, felt unsafe about going to
10  regular school.
11 BROWN: I wanted to go to unit school because I didn't want to
12  be out in the CL all by myself all day.
13 DAVIS: Hm mmm.
14 BROWN: And I didn't want, I don't know. I just, (pause), it
15  just struck me as rude when he said that I was
16  manipulating.
17 DAVIS: Well, you'll be able to have a chance to talk to him,
18  won't you?
19 BROWN: Yeah.
20 DAVIS: Okay. What I want to know is could we pursue a little
21  bit, uh, what your fears are still about, and, uh,
22  wanting to be on CL?
23 BROWN: I don't wanna be on CL.

2

1 DAVIS: Okay. So you're not the one, or ones, who was so very
2  frightened?
3 BROWN: No.
4 DAVIS: Then, if you want to be off CL, it seems like, uh, and,
5  no, uh, nobody push ALICE out of the way, ëcause she
6  needs to do a little work today. You guys listen up.
7  And listen while I talk to her, but don't push her out
8  of the way. And you stay here. It would seem that if
9  you want to get off CL and you don't know what the
10  fears are, uh, that somebody said that you needed to be
11  on that, that seems like sometime today during this
12  session I need a chance to work with that part. Or
13  those parts. Right?
14 BROWN: Um hmmm.
15 DAVIS: Okay. And, um, do you think that's a good idea?
16 BROWN: Urn hmmm.
17 DAVIS: ëCause you personally had no fear, huh?
18 BROWN: No.
19 DAVIS: Tell me exactly, can you tell me when you left or got
20  shoved aside? Which it was? From the session
21  yesterday.
22 BROWN: The first time or the second time?
23 DAVIS: I mean when we were done.
24 BROWN: When we started walking out in the hallway.

1 DAVIS: When you started walking out in the hallway, and what
2  was your experience of what happened? You as ALICE.
3 BROWN: I was pushed away. Someone pushed me away.
4 DAVIS: Someone pushed you away cause they were fearful right
5  there in the hall.
6 BROWN: Um hmmm.
7 DAVIS: And they were very afraid to push you away like that.
S  And then when did you come back?
9 BROWN: When I was back on the unit.
10 DAVIS: Urn, when you were back on the unit when?
11 BROWN: I don't know. You had gone.
12 DAVIS: I had gone.
13 BROWN: And the nurse CINDY came and told me I was on CL.
14 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Um hmmm. Well, your part knew that you were
15  on CL.
16 BROWN: Yeah.
17 DAVIS: Cause they, they've been able to let me know that they
18  needed to be on CL. But did not need to be on one-to-
19  one. Okay? So some parts are having a lot of fear and
20  they're, and so you ended up losing some time after the
21  session. Well, I for sure need to have some time to
22  talk to them today. And see what that was about
23  because if it's too traumatic for them to go over to

1  that room and work, then that would eliminate that
2  area. Does that make sense to you, Alice?
3 BROWN: Urn hmmm.
4 DAVIS: I know you like to go to a private place to where you
5  can not be heard by the other kids on the unit. When
6  you work. A little bit loudly sometimes. Or even when
7  you're not so loud, but just choose to have some tears.
8  It's evidently, people get over kinda near that door
9  and hear sometimes. I was very surprised when I heard
10  that kid say to you that she heard you crying and you
11  sounded like a little kid or something. Do you
12  remember that?
13 BROWN: Hm hmmm.
14 DAVIS: Who was that kid that said that?
15 BROWN: I don't remember. I was eating dinner and somebody
16  said, oh, I heard you crying. And I didn't know
17  exactly who said it.
18 DAVIS: Okay. Um, but, and so, we need to, to figure out, uh,
19  what the fear is of that part or parts, and how we can
20  reassure them so that you can have a private place
21  (clears throat) to have that and so that we can have
22  nursing assistants sometimes if we would need it. You
23  know, with our sessions, so that you can do work on the
24  really good feelings and stuff. Okay. So we know

1  we're gonna do that today and give an opportunity to
2  those parts and what else do you need to talk about,
3  Alice?
4 BROWN: Well, I kinda, I was thinking about something last
5  night.
6 DAVIS: Hm mmmm.
7 BROWN: And I thought, you know, DR. SEWARD has been saying if
8  there's nobody inside that wants to hurt the body, then
9  why are we keeping you here
10 DAVIS: Hm mmmm. That's right.
11 BROWN: And then I thought, well, it's like, I don't understand,
12  because even if there are Parts down there, what if
13  they're not out yet? And what if, it's kinda hard to
14  ask this question. It's like, what if there's still
15  parts there and we just haven't found ëem yet?And
16  they're not talking to anybody. And then I couldn't,
17  and then everybody wants to, wants me to start to keep
18  myself safe. It's like I'm getting two different
19  things. People want me to start to keep myself safe,
20  and then they want these parts to be out. And I don't
21  understand which, which one I should do.
22 DAVIS: We want those parts to come out in a safe situation.
23  Which usually means with nursing available, or being in

I a room with a call button, or being in a room with bean
2  bags, or whatever it takes. (coughs) Okay?
3 BROWN: Hm mmmm.
4 DAVIS: And, uh, we want you to be safe, and that means to let
5  us know what is necessary as soon as you know it for
6  these parts to come out and to work. And.. .
7 BROWN: If he wants ëem to talk to nursing staff, that wouldn't
8  be very safe for them to be out on the unit.
9 DAVIS: Let, let me, um, answer you a little bit indirectly.
10  heard a real good sharing from, um, a young lady,
11  multiple.
12 BROWN: Um hmmm.
13 DAVIS: Talking to her parts. And I won't identify her to you,
14  but, because I thought that this was the thing that
15  maybe other multiples could relate to. She had some
16  parts that said to her, we had to do bad things. You
17  got to be the lucky one and go to school, and have a
18  good time, and people like you. And people didn't like
19  us.
20 BROWN: Um hmmm.
21 DAVIS: When we came out people didn't like us. And, um,
22  hoping the parts inside will hear this also.
23 BROWN: Um hmmm.

1 DAVIS: Okay? So they were a little mad at the part that had
2  the name and went to school and so on, and got to play,
3  and so on, and didn't, wasn't around for the abuse.
4 BROWN: Urn hmmmm.
5 DAVIS: And this, urn, host, uh, person said, you had a bad job
6  to do and I'm sorry you had to do it. And I regret
7  that I couldn't share the good times with you. And
8 what you need to know is that I was doing a job that
9 the cult gave me also. I was being the front person
10  who had to look normal, who had to have amnesia for the
11  bad stuff, so that I could make the family look good
12  and look like everything was okay. So I had no choice,
13  either. They made me be amnestic, they made me look
14  like a good, normal one. And I was as used in that way
15  as you were. Does that make sense to you?
16 BROWN: Urn hmmm.
17 DAVIS: That your deeper parts weren't the only ones given a
18  job by, uh, the family, or the cult, if there is cult?
19 BROWN: Um hmmm.
20 DAVIS: Um hmmm. And so, when you, um, I can't say what DR.
21  SEWARD saw, but when I see you being real in a session
22  with me, and weeping your guts out. . .
23 BROWN: Um hmmm.
24 DAVIS: And really torn apart, you, ALICE.

1 BROWN: Um hmmm.
2 DAVIS: By fear, by loneliness, by grief. . .
3 (End of Side A)
4 (Beginning of Side B)
5 DAVIS: Öand then I see you leave the session, and sit down
6  real calmly to watch TV, or maybe the next day I come
7  in and I see you skipping across the room, you know,
8  sometimes I think what you're doing is, is having a
9  moment of being okay and being happy and, you know,
10  feeling like a regular kid. And sometimes I have to
11  wonder, are you still doin' the job that your family
12  gave you? To look good. To look okay. To look like
13  you weren't in any trouble. To Present a normal
14  appearance so that everybody would think that
15  every was okay and not suspect anything was wrong.
16  (Pause)
17 BROWN: But, this still doesn't answer my question.
18 DAVIS: You need to, uh, let your very excellent mind think
19  about what I've just said. And I don't know, because
20  DR. SEWARD hasn't talked to me about you today. So I
21  don't know if that's what he saw, but I'm just, I just
22  want you to know that I could, at some time, have made

1  those observations and said, maybe I wouldn't have said
2  you're manipulating, maybe I would've said something
3  like, uh, you, ALICE, are acting out the cult plan.
4  Which is a form of manipulation ëcause it's faking and
5  controlling and trying to get a certain effect. Not
G  that it was your idea. But that you might consider
7  when you adjust and get so cheerful so quickly and,
8  and, uh, you know, put on a happy face and all that
9  kind of stuff. You might consider sometime, is that
10  really how you're feeling or are you doing the look
11  normal look? Are you being the kind of, uh, kid that
12  really should have a visit from this good daddy? Are
13  you really the kid that has no suicidal or self-injury
14  parts and so you shouldn't be here at the hospital?
iS  Because all of that is aspects of being the ALICE that
16  nothing ever happened to. The ALICE that puts forward
17  a good front and goes to band, and is a good musician.
13  Even while other parts of her are scared to death of
19  the music that's happening. Is this, do you understand
20  this a little bit? We have never discussed this aspect
21  of what ALICE, you, had to do, in terms of looking real
22  normal and real safe and real unfeeling.
23 BROWN: (Crying)

1 DAVIS: Is this helpful at all to think about this? Am I
2  right? Was that girl right? I mean, I think she was
3  right for her. Was she right for you a little bit?
4  Yeah.
5 BROWN: (Crying)
6 DAVIS: You can make noise when you cry. You don't have to
7  stifle crying. And you can cry quietly if that's
8  really what it feels like. You don't have to cry loud
9  to put on a show for me. I just want you to feel and
10  express your sadness exactly like you want to.
11 BROWN: (Crying) Then how come last night when I was upset. . .
12 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
13 BROWN: I tried to talk, I tried to, I was sitting down on the
14  couch and I was crying.
15 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
16 BROWN: And all anybody wanted me to do was get up and take my
17  shower.
18 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
19 BROWN: They just wanted me to do this and do that.
20 DAVIS: Um hmmm. That's, uh, it doesn't mean that you were
21  doing anything wrong. Your parts, was that you or was
22  that parts sitting on the couch crying?

1 BROWN: It was another part. And when they were told that
2  they, they should be getting up and doing something
3  different, they didn't like it very much.
4 DAVIS: Um hmmm. I don't blame ëem, do you?
5 BROWN: (Crying) No.
G DAVIS: Urn hmmm. So what happened?
7 BROWN: They had to get up and take my shower (crying) .
8 DAVIS: So they left and you came out?
9 BROWN: They didn't go all the way in.
10 DAVIS: They stayed near. And you came out to handle the
11  problem. Well, ALICE, um, do you think that, did you
12  immediately take on the I'm okay role then?
13 BROWN: No.
14 DAVIS: Good! Tell me how you honored that part's sadness.
15 BROWN: I told her that I was sick and tired of sitting down on
16  the couch and crying and having people to tell me to
17  get up and go to groups and do this and do that. I
18  told her I was sick of that.
19 DAVIS: And did you tell her how you were feeling?
20 BROWN: (Crying) I told her it's awful lonely in this place
21  and nobody even respects that. It makes me pretty mad.
22 DAVIS: Good for you.
23 BROWN: And she said, well, we just want you to do what we have
24  planned.

1 DAVIS: And then what did you say?
2 BROWN: I said, I don't care what they have planned. I said,
3  this is my therapy.
4 DAVIS: Uh huh. So you insisted on being real for a while,
5  even while they were still bringing up the other
6  pieces.
7 BROWN: (Crying) And last night. . .
8 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Do you hear that I'm glad about that?
9 BROWN: Um hmmm.
10 DAVIS: Huh huh. And, uh, you didn't tell me that you did any
11  violent, anything violent or really acting out, or were
12  naughty or anything. You just expressed your feelings.
13 BROWN: (Crying)
14 DAVIS: Uh huh. And they were big feelings. And you were
15  helping that part express them. Did that part like
16  that? Yeah. That you came out and joined with them.
17 BROWN: (Crying) And last night.
18 DAVIS: Urn hmmm?
19 BROWN: I was having the most horrible dream.
20 DAVIS: Uh huh?
21 BROWN: And all B.C. said is that, if you don't lay down and go
22  to sleep you're going to get an early bedtime tomorrow.
23  I told him I didn't care about an early bedtime.
24 DAVIS: Good for you. Good for you.

1 BROWN: And they didn't even pay any attention to me.
2 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Well, there are some things that you can
3  count on some staff for, and what you can count on from
4  B.C. and folks like that is to keep you safe. Being
5  out in CL means (clears throat) that you can figure if
6  there's any problem or danger or something, that they
7  will keep you safe. Cause there's more than one of
8  them. May I let go of your hand to get Kleenex?
9 BROWN: Um hmmm.
10 DAVIS: Okay. I'm coming right back. And so, you can count on
11  ëem for that and that's what they're good for and they
12  are not therapists. Or doctors. So that's the truth
13  about that.
14 BROWN: (Crying)
15 DAVIS: Now I have an idea that if you'd been able to say to
16  DR. SEWARD, I've been really lonely here and I'm not
17  feeling safe enough to go to that school, but I'm
18  lonely and when I'm lonely my fear comes up, and could
19  I go to the unit school. I think that (clears throat)
20  that would've felt to him like, uh, like a kid who
21  wasn't trying to, you know, look real good and
22  competent maybe.
23 BROWN: (Crying) That's what I was trying to say. Cause I
24  wanted to talk to him.

1 DAVIS: Hm mmmm. Hmmmm. You actually wanted that more,
2  didn't you? Than what you asked for.
3 BROWN: I wanted to talk to him.
4 DAVIS: Hm mmmm. And didn't, did you want that more than you
5  wanted to go to the school? How come that didn't come
6  out of your mouth? I'm lonely, I'm scared, I want to
7  talk to you.
8 BROWN: I don't know.
9 DAVIS: Okay. I guess that would've felt too risky, huh?
10 BROWN: (Crying)
11 DAVIS: Yeah. But it would've been real real and it would've
12  been definitely not fitting the cult role. In what
13  they wanted you to do.
14 BROWN: (Crying)
15 DAVIS: How ëbout having a blow so the body can breathe?
16 BROWN: I can breathe.
17 DAVIS: Well, I heard a big snuffle. And that usually means
18  stuff going up instead of out. And then gravity wants
19  to bring it back again.
20 BROWN: (Blows nose)
21 DAVIS: I'm real glad that, uh, session didn't work out that I
22  was gonna do so I could come and be with you now. This
23  seems a better time for me to be with you today.
24 BROWN: Then I finally went to sleep last night.

1 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
2 BROWN: I don't know exactly what happened last night, but
3  something happened and then they told me to try and go
4  back to sleep. And I eventually did.
S DAVIS: So you lost some time during your sleep around the time
6  of the dream?
7 BROWN: Um hmmm.
8 DAVIS: Okay. Have you written in your journal today?
9 BROWN: A little bit last night.
10 DAVIS: Okay. Urn, I had read in your chart that you'd had a
11  bad dream, like, the night before that still.
12 BROWN: Um hmmm.
13 DAVIS: Uh huh. Do you remember that one?
14 BROWN: Um hmmm.
15 DAVIS: Okay. Do you wanna just talk to me about it, because
16  it might the same kind of theme of dream.
17 BROWN: It was about my Mom.
18 DAVIS: Um hmmm. And what was the dream?
19 BROWN: Um, I was in, I was in this big room. This is like the
20  dreams always are. And, I was running and I couldn't
21  see anything and my Mom was calling for me and I was
22  calling for her, and I couldn't see her.
23 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
24 BROWN: And then I fell down and I woke up.

1 DAVIS: Um hmmm. (Pause)
2 BROWN: Last night the nurse didn't even want to hear about my
3  dream.
4 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Well, the nurse knows she's not a therapist.
5  And she knows that that's like a boundary issue.
G BROWN: But I had to talk to somebody.
7 DAVIS: Some nurses who have had different kinds of training
8  are willing to listen.
9 BROWN: KENDRA would listen.
10 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
11 BROWN: But she wasn't there last night.
12 DAVIS: Um hmmm. So you had a hard evening. I'm really sorry
13  you had such a hard evening. The good news, though, is
14  you weren't having any dreams for a while, were you?
15 BROWN: Huh huh.
16 DAVIS: And so the good news, I think, is that some of the
17  parts are deciding to let you, to, uh, to leak some
18  feelings to you. And to start communicating again.
19  Some of them may have decided that they can come back
20  to being in therapy. Some of them may be believing you
21  that, uh, you're going to do your therapy regardless of
22  what, what the deal is with your family.
23 BROWN: Um hmmm.

1 DAVIS: I mean, I think I had you on tape the other day as
2  saying that you couldn't live around your stepdad or
3  see him any more. And some of them may have heard you.
4  And then wondering all, all the time what your decision
5  was gonna be about that. You only have one life.
G BROWN: But it's so bad.
7 DAVIS: But it has a chance to change if you choose to do it.
8  All of us have different families during our lifetime.
9  I don't know if you've ever thought about that. You
10  know, the one we started out with. And sometimes
11  that's several different families. The steps and this
12  and that and so on.
13 BROWN: Um hmmm.
14 DAVIS: And then we grow up and sometimes people marry or
15  whatever and have their own kids and then that's
16  another family. Where they have a whole fresh chance
17  to have a healthy, safe, happier relationship.
18 BROWN: Um hmmm.
19 DAVIS: But unless they have really cleanly finished with the
20  other it's not gonna happen. They just repeat it.
21 BROWN: How do you know when you're finished?
22 DAVIS: Uh, in your case, it will be when all the parts have
23  joined to decide that they prefer freedom and safety

1  and choice at all costs and prefer it over the family
2  that was.
3 BROWN: Well, gosh, y'all know that they're all there huh, when
4  they are.
5 DAVIS: How will we what?
G BROWN: Y'all know that they're all there?
7 DAVIS: This is, I'm just giving you the end view. The parts
8  step by step we have to figure out. They know they're
9  there.
10 BROWN: Um hmmm.
11 DAVIS: And, uh, then people get kinda older like me, and kids
12  grow up and leave home?
13 BROWN: Um hmmm.
14 DAVIS: And suddenly it's like a natural ending of that family.
15  And then it's time to, and then sometimes people lose
16  their husbands or wives or whatever. They die and so
17  on. Or divorce or whatever. And then people form
18  brand new healthy families. Like with, uh, churches or
19  clubs that they belong to, or their neighbors, or
20  roommates or stuff. So people keep having chances to
21  reform healthy family and friend relationships. All
22  during their life.
23 BROWN: Well, right now y'all are my family.

1 DAVIS: Right now we are your therapy, and yes, in a certain
2  very real sense we are your family right now. And you
3  know we're a temporary family to get you strong enough
4  and healthy enough to be able to form good, healthy,
5  safe, relationships elsewhere.
G BROWN: Gosh. I can't imagine that.
7 DAVIS: Being in a good, safe, healthy family relationship?
8 BROWN: What would that be like?
9 DAVIS: What would that be like? (Pause)
10 BROWN: I've never been there before.
11 DAVIS: Um hmmm. I know.
12 BROWN: What is it like?
13 DAVIS: What is it like? Well, what do you think it would be
14  like? Or could be like?
15 BROWN: There wouldn't be any fighting.
16 DAVIS: There might be arguments. There might be differences
17  of opinions. Like you had a difference of opinion with
18  the nurses last night, didn't you?
19 BROWN: Um hmmm.
20 DAVIS: Uh huh. And did you have that difference of opinion
21  with some feelings attached to it?
22 BROWN: Um hmmm.
23 DAVIS: Uh huh. And did you say it in a way that wasn't
24  necessarily going to please the people hearing it?

1 BROWN: Um hmmm.
2 DAVIS: And did you get punished afterwards?
3 BROWN: No.
4 DAVIS: Or abused at least?
5 BROWN: No.
G DAVIS: No. So that's kind of an example of a healthy
7  relationship. And you got a little bit of what you
8  needed last night. You got safety. Nobody was abused,
9  right?
10 BROWN: No.
11 DAVIS: Right. You got a little bit of what you wanted, and
12  you didn't get some of what you wanted, too. And that's
13  sometimes how it is. Things aren't perfect in healthy
14  families. But you got some of what you needed.
15  Safety. And they got some of what they needed, the
16  satisfaction of having your shower and stuff. And you
17  sorta negotiated it without anybody having to be hurt.
18 BROWN: I wrote some last night.
19 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Is that all you wanna think about, what a
20  healthy, safe family would be like?
21 BROWN: Um hmmm. ëCause it's scary to think about that.
22 DAVIS: Why is that, what's the scary part?
23 BROWN: ëCause if I think about my old family. . .
24 DAVIS: Um hmmm.

1 BROWN: And then I think about a new family.
2 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
3 BROWN: It's scary.
4 DAVIS: What's the scary?
5 BROWN: That, what if I really think it's a good family and
G  then it's not?
7 DAVIS: Okay. So some of what is between you and healthy
8  relationships is fear that people may not be who they
9  say they are.
10 BROWN: ëCause Daddy said he loved me, and he really didn't.
11 DAVIS: Or at least his parts that didn't act in your, at least
12  his behavior didn't seem that way, huh?
13 BROWN: Um hmmm.
14 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
15 BROWN: And Mommy said that she was not going to leave, and she
16  did.
17 DAVIS: To leave?
18 BROWN: To go away and not, and she said she was going to be a
19  good Mom and she wasn't.
20 DAVIS: Um hmmm. So what does that tell you about making sure
21  you have a healthy family?
22 BROWN: I've got to make sure I have a healthy family.
23 DAVIS: And how do you do that?
24 BROWN: By getting safe.

1 DAVIS: And how do you do that?
2 BROWN: What do you mean?
3 DAVIS: How do you do that?
4 BROWN: Having all my parts come to therapy.
5 DAVIS: Okay. And you also do that by paying attention to
G  people's behavior as much as you pay attention to their
7  words.
8 BROWN: Um hmmm.
9 DAVIS: Um hmmm. So you and I get along pretty well, right?
10 BROWN: Um hmmm.
11 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
12 BROWN: I hope so.
13 DAVIS: Yeah. But if you came to therapy some day and I hurt
14  you? Then that would be a behavior that wouldn't fit
15  with how it's been, wouldn't it?
16 BROWN: Um hmmm.
17 DAVIS: Uh huh. And you would have to pay attention to that
18  behavior, wouldn't you?
19 BROWN: Um hmmm.
20 DAVIS: And you'd have to say, whoops, I thought this was a
21  good, safe relationship with SYLVIA, but, it's not. Or
22  at least you'd have to think about it and check it out.
23  Instead of forgetting it or pretending it didn't
24  happen.

1 BROWN: But I don't think you would ever do that.
2 DAVIS: No. Well, I know that I won't. But what I'm saying is
3  that you pay attention to people's behavior. And...
4 BROWN: Like, like, well, last night was a good example.
5  gave LOUIE a hug.
G DAVIS: Um hmmm.
7 BROWN: And nothing happened.
8 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Nothing bad happened, you mean. I think
9  something happened.
10 BROWN: He gave me a hug.
11 DAVIS: Yes. And that felt good, huh?
12 BROWN: Um hmmm.
13 DAVIS: Yeah. So you and whichever of your parts participated
14  with that got to experience, urn, a safe hug from a man.
15 BROWN: They wanted a hug from DR. SEWARD.
16 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
17 BROWN: But he said no.
18 DAVIS: He said no?
19 BROWN: Cause he's afraid that some parts might take it wrong.
20 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
21 BROWN: You give lots of hugs.
22 DAVIS: Yes, I do. And I sort of trust that if any parts,
23  well, I usually say all your parts by this time know
24  that the ones that want the hugs come close and the

1  ones that don't want ëem back in the back, and that you
2  pretty much end the hugs.
3 BROWN: Um hmmm.
4 DAVIS: I don't hold on to you when you're done with the hugs.
5 BROWN: Uhn uh.
G DAVIS: So I hope that they listen and watch for that, and so
7  on. But it's a little trickier, uh, for DR. SEWARD.
8  And he's trying to be real cautious and not give
9  anybody the idea he's gonna be like the cult dad. This
10  was you?
11 BROWN: Um hmmm.
12 DAVIS: Okay. Anything to say, then? Yeah. No. Let's see
13  how much I've got here. (Shuffling papers) Okay. So
14  do these things and then how about if I give a little
15  bit of time to, um, the scared one? The one who was so
16  scared, and see if we can negotiate, or, you know, give
17  them a turn. Okay? I'm willing for you to be present
18  while we talk to them, but they may not.
19 BROWN: Okay.
20 DAVIS: So you can be talking inside to let them know you have
21  the courage, if you do.
22 BROWN: I do.
23 DAVIS: To find out what was so scary to them and that you want
24  to help them to feel safe, and you know, whatever

1  talking you wanna do. To see if you can arrange to be
2  present while they talk. And the topic is just about
3  what was so scary when y'all went into the hall.
4 BROWN: I liked seeing DR. PETERSON yesterday. And I tried to
5  sneeze with my eyes open last night. It didn't work.
6 DAVIS: I think she's right. It doesn't.
7 BROWN: Have you tried it yet?
8 DAVIS: No. I know better.
9 BROWN: (Laughs) (Pause) You know what the best part was
10  about yesterday?
11 DAVIS: Um hmmm. What? No.
12 BROWN: Meeting GLENDA.
13 DAVIS: Really?
14 BROWN: Um hmmm.
15 DAVIS: Why? Tell me more about that.
16 BROWN: I like GLENDA.
17 DAVIS: Oh. I wonder how come you didn't want her to come back
18  in the session, then, after you said the words that you
19  needed to say. Or after that part had said that.
20 BROWN: I don't know.
21 DAVIS: You were the one that said that she shouldn't come
22  back, right?

1 BROWN: Uh uh. That was the part that was scared. And then I
2  came out, and then they pushed me back out of the way
3  again.
4 DAVIS: Okay. You were in and out pretty fast there at the
5  end, then.
6 BROWN: Um hmmm.
7 DAVIS: Did you say goodbye to DR. PETERSON?
8 BROWN: Uh huh.
9 DAVIS: Okay. And then there was a scared part coming, and
10  then she stuck her head back in and asked, and you said
11  no, and then ALICE came back a little bit, I think.
12  And then went to the door. ALICE didn't like the idea
13  very much. You were pretty mad ëcause you hadn't had
14  much time in the session. Although you had told me you
is  didn't have anything to talk about.
16 BROWN: I really didn't at the time.
17 DAVIS: Well, and then you did at the end. But, you know
18  tomorrow's another day.
19 BROWN: (Laughs)
20 DAVIS: Yep.
21 BROWN: You know what?
22 DAVIS: Uh huh?
23 BROWN: I just figured something out.
24 DAVIS: What?

1 BROWN: That I've been seeing you for almost seven months.
2 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
3 BROWN: And I've never noticed that your eyes are blue.
4 DAVIS: They're not.
5 BROWN: They're not?
6 DAVIS: No. . .
7 BROWN: They're green.
8 DAVIS: They're hazel. Which is, uh, sorta, um, hazel is a
9  kind of green/brown that takes the colors of what I
10  wear. I didn't know my eyes looked blue today.
11 BROWN: They looked blue for a minute.
12 DAVIS: Oh. Hazel eyes, more than other eyes, will reflect
13  colors that are being worn. So sometimes they look
14  blue and sometimes green and sometimes brown.
15 BROWN: Do they ever look pink?
16 DAVIS: No.
17 BROWN: Mmmm.
18 DAVIS: So you say here that it would be a very helpful thing
19  to be able to feel the feelings and not have alters
20  fake the electricity. Sometimes I wonder if some of
21  that faking is sometimes a real thing. Would, uh, I'm
22  not sure what you mean by that.
23 BROWN: I mean, don't, um, I thought, well, wouldn't, couldn't
24  some of it be real?

1 DAVIS: If any of it is faked we have a problem.
2 BROWN: Um hmmm. I know.
3 DAVIS: So it doesn't matter if say, some of it is, is real--
4  it's the faking. It's sort of like, uh, like making a
5  cake for dinner? And if you start out with mud it
G  doesn't matter how much real vanilla you pour in or
7  real eggs. It's still a mud cake. And nobody really
8  wants to eat it.
9 BROWN: Uh huh.
10 DAVIS: And it really doesn't do anybody any good.
11 BROWN: Uh huh. (Laughs)
12 DAVIS: So, this was you writing. . .that doesn't look like your
13  signature.
14 BROWN: Um hmmm. That's me.
15 DAVIS: So you, personally, are worried that your mother will
16  be out in the lobby when you go by there.
17 BROWN: Um hmmm.
18 DAVIS: Okay. Well, what we do is, we ask her to stay in her
19  room, or we know that she's in a group that doesn't let
20  out.
21 BROWN: Uh huh.
22 DAVIS: And we make sure that the coast is clear before you go
23  out. So, (pause), so some of your alters don't trust

1  that system yet. Well, did you see your mother
2  yesterday?
3 BROWN: Mm mm.
4 DAVIS: Let that, the alters know that, that the system worked
5  yesterday. I don't know what else to say about that.
G  Uh, evidently there's a lot of fears still of Mom being
7  not safe.
8 BROWN: That's, that's part of what the alters were afraid of.
9  Going through the unit and coming back on the unit and
10  (UI) .
11 DAVIS: What are you thinking that she would signal?
12 BROWN: I don't know. To stop working. To not to do anything
13  any more.
14 DAVIS: Um hmmm. And your alters are very afraid that, what?
15 BROWN: That somebody inside might follow that.
16 DAVIS: Yeah. Does that mean that you're also scaring (pause),
17  does that mean that you're also scared that parts
18  inside would still obey a bad signal?
19 BROWN: Um hmmm.
20 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Well, we're doing our best to avoid any
21  meetings whatsoever. And we're in charge of that.
22  However, DR. SEWARD, I believe, was thinking that you
23  should go over to the adolescent unit on the 14th.
24 BROWN: Um hmmm.

1 DAVIS: And I'm wondering if we shouldn't be doing some work
2  with those alters who would then be seeing your sister.
3 BROWN: Um hmmm. We should be.
4 DAVIS: Um hmmm. ëCause this is a, this is a fear. What if
5  staff messes up? And Mom gets out and sees me and
6  signals. That is not a what if staff messes up.
7  That's a plan. That you will be in groups and things
8  with, uh, CAROL.
9 BROWN: Urn hmmm.
10 DAVIS: So it seems like we should be doing some very hard work
11  about that.
12 BROWN: Urn hmmm. When is the 14th? How many more days?
13 DAVIS: I think this is the 4th. It's about the 14th. My
14  memory says the 14th.
15 BROWN: Yesterday was the 4th.
16 DAVIS: No, today's the 4th.
17 BROWN: It is?
18 DAVIS: Um hmmm. So, um, I know I thought it was the 5th today
19  also. And I got corrected over on the other unit. So
20  we'd better really start, uh, working very hard on the
21  fear of CATHY's triggering.
22 BROWN: I got a good question for you.
23 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
24 BROWN: This may seem kinda wierd, a wierd question.

1 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
2 BROWN: Probably not. But I'm gonna ask it anyways. CAROL
3  has a shirt that it's yellow and black and it's plaid.
4  I don't know if you've ever seen it before. It's
5  yellow and black plaid. She's worn it before.
6 DAVIS: Yes, I've seen it.
7 BROWN: And I don't know if she's not supposed to wear that
8  color or what, but what, you know, I'm not, I don't
9  wear yellow, ëcause, well, I don't have anything
10  yellow, but.. .
11 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
12 BROWN: I wouldn't wear it anyways. What, well, what if she
13  wears her yellow shirt?
14 DAVIS: So are you thinking that there should be requests
15  passed through DR. SEWARD about what you don't want her
16  to wear?
17 BROWN: Well, maybe we could. . .
18 DAVIS: A negotiation?
19 BROWN: Maybe we could have something like the safety committee
20  work on that. And see what we could come up with.
21 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
22 BROWN: ëCause I mean, if she's worked through that, it's, I
23  don't know, it doesn't seem fair for her not to be able
24  to wear that.

1 DAVIS: I don't know that you can assume that she, or anybody
2  else has worked through anything.
3 BROWN: Well, I mean, if she hasn't, that's, you know,
4  whatever, but, I don't know.
5 DAVIS: Well, there are different ways to look at it. You can
6  negotiate or you can, uh, arrange for, well, like what
7  would that mean? Do you know what the shirt would mean
g  to you?
9 BROWN: Well some, the parts say it means electricity.
10 DAVIS: Okay. So maybe there needs to be some work with those
11  parts to desensitize them about that. Shoot, I could
12  wear a bright yellow shirt someday. It doesn't mean
13  electricity to me. So you may need to desensitize
14  about that.
15 BROWN: Just like with, with all the other stuff.
16 DAVIS: Um hmmm. All the other stuff. Okay. Good writing
17  here. Good job, this part that wrote about the
18  sunshine program. I wish this part that, uh, wrote
19  about this would write again because I'd like to know,
20  um, if that person is afraid of somebody inside the
21  body or somebody outside of the body.
22 BROWN: Outside.
23 DAVIS: Okay. Then, uh, what we have to let you know is we'll
24  keep you safe in the hospital and it's only by all

1  those parts coming forth and joining therapy that we
2  can help you protect yourself and stay away from people
3  who would hurt you. Thank you, part. No names, so I
4  have to say part. (Turning pages) Um hmmm. We
5  probably have some writing about that now, too. Thank
6  you. Can, uh, so ALICE, you have some things to think
7  about. One is your role as the normal kid. The people
8  pleaser. The one who can be amnestic of everybody
9  else's feelings and just go around looking perfect.
10  And how you can change your role if you want to.
11 BROWN: I want to.
12 DAVIS: Okay. And you can, uh, be thinking, maybe even writing
13  about that. I don't know.
14 BROWN: Um hmmm. I'm going to write about it tonight.
15 DAVIS: Okay. And you also need to do a lot more thinking
16  about what's going to happen with being on the unit
17  with ALICE and how do you reconcile. . .
18 BROWN: With ALICE?
19 DAVIS: Not on the unit with CAROL, but, yeah, on the unit
20  with CAROL.
21 BROWN: (Laughs)
22 DAVIS: You also, uh, given that, you have to figure out how
23  will you deal with CAROL? Will you have to keep
24  the cult role of pretending that everything is okay

1  when you see her? If she's scary to you or signaling?
2  I mean, that was ALICE's job.
3 BROWN: Um hmmm.
4 DAVIS: Probably all the different ALICE's, right?
5 BROWN: Um hmmm.
6 DAVIS: Yeah. Who's here today? ALICE 1 and ALICE who else?
7  All of you guys are together listening? But that's how
8  many are there. Good. Glad about that. You have to
9  figure out how to keep getting more and more honest.
10  The ALICEs, instead of looking real good and real safe
11  all the time when you're not, have to be thinking about
12  how you can keep that honesty going when it's gonna be
13  challenged every single day by what you see in
14  CAROL and in the other peers.
15 BROWN: There's, you know, how yesterday we talked, well the
16  day before, about taking my pictures down.
17 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
18 BROWN: Um, could I keep the picture of CATHY?
19 DAVIS: Well, is that safe?
20 BROWN: I don't know.
21 DAVIS: So is that really safe or is it reprogramming to see
22  CATHY's picture all the time? I asked two questions at
23  once. I did a bad thing. (UI)...and I'll ask you
24  again. So is it, is it reprogramming to look at

1  CATHY's picture? Okay. That's all I wanted to ask
2  about that.
3 BROWN: Okay.
4 DAVIS: Um, okay, let me have, uh, I think, uh, let me have a
S  few minutes to, well, what did you arrange with, um,
6  the part and parts that were scared of your mother?
7 BROWN: I said the next time we go over there that they will
8  watch and see that she's not out. And I told them,
9  when I went through she wasn't there.
10 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
11 BROWN: And they said they believed me, but they had to see for
12  themselves.
13 DAVIS: Yeah. So they did notice that she wasn't there. But
14  yet they were still very scared. Uh, did they tell you
15  what they were so scared about?
16 BROWN: Um hmmm.
17 DAVIS: Okay. Can the two of you be present at the same time?
18  Did they say that they could talk while you are here?
19 BROWN: Uh huh.
20 DAVIS: Okay. I'm listening. Is this CHRISTY?
21 BROWN: Um hmmm.
22 DAVIS: Okay. - Cause CHRISTY wrote. CHRISTY was afraid of
23  more than you were. She was afraid not that Mother
24  would signal you, but that Mother would hurt you.

1 BROWN: Yeah. And that's why I hid in the hole.
2 DAVIS: Um hmmm. And Mom, actually, that was staying where if
3  Mom had decided to do the laundry where you would see
4  her.
5 BROWN: I didn't know that.
6 DAVIS: Well, I had to explain that to you. What were you
7  afraid of going back on the unit for?
8 BROWN: ëCause I was afraid to see CATHY.
9 DAVIS: Urn hmmm.
10 BROWN: Down the hallway when I went to dinner.
11 DAVIS: You were afraid of seeing CATHY also?
12 BROWN: Um hmmm.
13 DAVIS: So you're one that's got a lot of fear of CATHY, too.
14 BROWN: But I do love her.
15 DAVIS: I know. It's possible to hold both things, being very
16  afraid of somebody and loving them, too.
17 BROWN: Because she never hurt me. She hurt lots of other
18  people inside.
19 DAVIS: Those folks, some of them have written and drawn. But
20  I think there's lots more that haven't written and
21  drawn, right?
22 BROWN: Um hmmm.
23 DAVIS: Will you guys please write and draw?

1 BROWN: I don't know. Well, what is, what is, uh, is CL like
2  when you don't go anywhere?
3 DAVIS: CL means that you're, you, uh, you're not in your room
4  by yourself and you're not, uh, doesn't it mean in,
5  you're not, uh, uh, in the bathroom by yourself?
6  Somebody watches so that nobody can hurt the body. It
7  means sleeping out in the lobby so that, uh, you have
8  several people watching for your safety.
9 BROWN: But nobody wants to hurt the body.
10 DAVIS: Um hmmm. But you were afraid that you would be hurt by
11  some, by CATHY?
12 BROWN: Um hmmm.
13 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Or hurt by Mom or something. And it's true
14  you guys have been having real bad dreams anyway. So
15  it was kinda good to have the dream out in the CL where
16  other people could see you, wasn't it?
17 BROWN: Sort of.
18 DAVIS: Yeah. Yeah. I thought so. Will that feel a little
19  safer until we process some more of this material about
20  CATHY to continue with that?
21 BROWN: I don't want to sleep out there anymore.
22 DAVIS: Well, but there are some very terrified parts who
23  become dysfunctional and aren't even clearly thinking.
24  And I think they need to do some writing, don't they?

1  And some feeling about these fears of CATHY and even
2  seeing her down the hall? I mean, how can, uh, my
3  guess is that fear should, will be intensifying when
4  you know that you are going to actually be on the unit
5  with her. We need to do some hard work about that.
6  And you need to feel kinda safe while you're doing the
7  work, don't you?
8 BROWN: Um hmmm.
9 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
10 BROWN: But I have, uh, I, I know this part inside. . .
11 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
12 BROWN: And he was really upset when somebody had to watch him
13  take a bath last night.
14 DAVIS: So why was he, um, taking the front position when he
15  was having the bath last night? Why couldn't he go to
16  the tree or something?
17 BROWN: He wasn't. But still he was afraid.
18 DAVIS: Uh huh. There are just lots of scared parts, aren't
19  there?
20 BROWN: Um hmmm.
21 DAVIS: I mean, embarrassment is one thing.
22 BROWN: But he. . .
23 DAVIS: And modesty.
24 BROWN: . . .was afraid.

1 DAVIS: I, I understand you. And so he needs to be writing
2  about that, too, what that was about.
3 BROWN: But he doesn't want that to go on.
4 DAVIS: Well, (pause), ALICE, are you going to pretend that
5  everything is normal?
G BROWN: What do you mean?
7 DAVIS: That sounds to me like that part is sort of asking you
8  to pretend that everything is okay so that he can get
9  off CL.
10 BROWN: No, that's not what he's talking about.
11 DAVIS: Oh, he doesn't want you to pretend, then.
12 BROWN: He's afraid.
13 DAVIS: I understand that he's afraid. Yes. And I wish that
14  he would write about that fear and where that comes
15  from. And what that's about. Okay? So we can help
16  him with that? Um, I'm glad that I'm, that you
17  explained that so I didn't misunderstand.
18 BROWN: And he's still afraid.
19 DAVIS: Um hmmm. Does he have a name?
20 BROWN: Um hmmm.
21 DAVIS: What's that?
22 BROWN: LUKE.
23 DAVIS: LUKE?
24 BROWN: Um hmmm.

1 DAVIS: I'd be so happy for LUKE to write and draw to me.
2 BROWN: What's he going to do tonight when he's afraid?
3 DAVIS: He's going to say, right out loud, maybe or tell you to
4 say. . .
5 (End of tape)