Tape #308, Side B
Date: 4/3/92
SYLVIA DAVIS - SYLVIA DAVIS
ALICE - ALICE BROWN
1 Beginning of Tape
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: I wouldn't want you or anybody else in the
body to end up, you know, with
3 scrapes on your on your hand or hurt yourself by hitting
things; so if you're
4 going to hit something, I would rather that you hit
something that didn't hurt
5 you, you know, like uh uh like uh pillow or like the
stuffing on a chair or
6 something like that, just cause I don't want you to get
hurt. So -- and they
7 kick? They kicked the wall, too? Kicking is fun, isn't it?
Looks like fun
8 didn't it?
9 ALICE: They kicked a big ol' hole in the wall.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah.
11 ALICE: That's where it happened.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Well, that wall must look pretty
tempting, huh? Does it?
13 ALICE: Uh-huh.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. Especially the one that's already been
busted on a little bit.
15 ALICE: Both of em have.
1
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: hum
2 ALICE: Big ol' holes.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Bet that looks like it would be satisfiying,
doesn't it? It's not really a good
4 habit, though, to be breaking up walls and things (clear
throat) cause they're
5 expensive to fix. But, a person could, you know, pound on
the s... the seat
6 of a chair or something.
7 ALICE: But how do you have a safe temper tantrum?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: How do you have a what?
9 ALICE: A safe temper tantrum and not get in trouble?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, some of the fun of a temper tantrum,
as Dr. Seward is talking about it,
11 is that you let yourself get so mad that you don't care
if you get into some
12 trouble because you know that this is a safe place. And
you wouldn't be
13 getting into trouble that would get you really hurt, you
know? Like you
14 know none of the staff is going to hit you, don't you?
You don't know that?
15 Bethany, none of the staff here is going to hit you.
That's not going to
16 happen.
17 ALICE: But they hold their arms when they take them to the
quiet room.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: They hold their arms so that they won't get hit.
It's not nice to hit people.
19 ALICE: But I don't want to go to the quiet room.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I think that you probably are invited
to go to the quiet room first. It's
21 probably like, "All right, Young Lady, you need to go to
the quiet room
2
1 now." And then you say, "Okay." as loud as you can.
2 ALICE: (Laugh)
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: "Okay." And then you just march along.
4 ALICE: But I'm scared of the quiet room.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: What's scary about the quiet room?
6 ALICE: Cause in the cult, they had them and they put you
in...
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Hum.
8 ALICE: And locked you up like that.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: And there was nobody there, right? There was nobody there. Here, have
10 you noticed how it is with the quiet room? That there's
somebody right
11 outside the door?
12 ALICE: But I still wouldn't want to go.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: You wouldn't want to go by yourself, huh?
Would you like to go in with me?
14 I mean, I'm willing to go in the quiet room with you so
that you could feel
15 safe while you do that.
16 ALICE: Uh, uh.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh. Have you ever looked in that quiet
room? What's in there?
18 ALICE: Nothing.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh?
20 ALICE: Nothing.
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Nothing. Does it look like the quiet room in
the cult? It does? Ummm.
3
1 How long, tell me about it in the cult. Tell me about
sometime when you
2 were in the quiet room in the cult. I don't think they
called it that, though.
3 ALICE: It's because I wouldn't do stuff.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: When you wouldn't do stuff, they put you in a
room. Did they have a name
5 for the room?
6 ALICE: I don't know.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Was it like a closet or a room?
8 ALICE: A room and locked the door.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: And locked the door. What kind of stuff was
it?
10 ALICE: What do you mean?
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: That you wouldn't, didn't want to do.
12 ALICE: Didn't want to...I was mad and I was screaming and
they put me in there
13 cause nobody was supposed to talk.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: What were you so mad at?
I 5 ALICE: What they were doing.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Can you tell me what they were doing:?
17 ALICE: Uh...
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: See, I, I know I'm not a member of the cult
or anything, but I've worked
19 with people who've hated being in the cult and been very
angry at the cult.
20 So I know some of the stories. I know some of the stuff
that they do. What
21 would happen if you would tell me what it was that you
saw that you were
4
1 so angry at?
2 ALICE: Ummmm...
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, think about it. What, what might happen?
4 ALICE: They might find me.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: They might find you? (Sigh) Do you think I
would tell them what you
6 talked? How do you think they might find out?
7 ALICE: The tape.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: The tape? I have news for you about this
tape. This tape goes into a -in
9 fact, I'm going to stop the tape and show you -stop the
tape and I'll show
10 you what it says. It says stop.
11 (Tape stops.)
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Do you understand that? And that name was
made up by Alice. There isn't
13 really a Jennifer Smith. She just made up the name so
that we could have
14 the tape, and she could feel safe, too. The thing about
the cult is they were a
15 very -- they would just punish people any way all the
time, wouldn't they?
16 Yeah. So, I don't know if you've listened in sometime when
I've talked to
17 Alice and the others about trying to work with your family so
that your
18 family can be safe to go to, and so that nobody in your
family would belong
19 to the cult, and so you could have a regular kind of
life. But to do that, the
20 different family members have to tell what they can so that we know how to
21 make you safe. Keep you safe.
5
1 ALICE: Dr. Peterson said that I didn't have to go to the
quiet room.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Said you didn't have to go to the quiet room?
Is that on the chart?
3 ALICE: I don't know.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Hum?
5 ALICE: I think so.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Maybe it should be on the chart before you
have your temper tantrum, huh?
7 (laugh)
8 ALICE: Susan said it was on the chart.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: Susan is your staff person there, right? That
you don't have to go to the quiet
10 room. I misunderstood you. I thought you liked the idea of
going to the
11 quiet room first. Now, I understand you wouldn't want to go
there.
12 ALICE: That's why I don't want to have a tantrum.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Hum. But if it's on your chart that you're not
to go to the quiet room, then
14 they would have to think of something else for you. Right?
15 ALICE: I'm embarrassed to scream.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Embarrassed to scream? My goodness, why?
17 ALICE: I don't know.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: I bet when people screamed in the cult, they got
made fun of, didn't they?
19 Like they were weak and like they were stupid.
20 ALICE: (Inaudible
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: We don't think that here. When people are really
scared and really mad, it's
6
1 okay to scream.
2 ALICE: (Pause) Do I have to scream if I have a trantrum?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: You have to get loud enough that everybody
hears.
4 ALICE: What if you don't?
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, you just have to really try it.
6 ALICE: Dr. Seward will be mad if I don't do a temper
tantrum, won't he?
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I don't think he'll be mad. I think he'll
be sad because I think that he
8 thinks that it would be nice for you to be able to be a
kid who can have
9 angry feelings without having to lock them up.
10 ALICE Couldn't I be angry some other way?
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Some other way?
12 ALICE: Uh-huh. Like punching my bed?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: If, so long as you make noise with it. yeah.
14 ALICE: I did.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah? Did you punch your bed and make noise?
16 ALICE: Uh, huh.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you really? What were you mad about?
18 ALICE: I was mad after group because nobody was listening
in group.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh.
20 ALICE: And we had to come out of here because everybody
was disrespectful for
21 everybody else. I went in my room and punched my bed real
hard and
7
1 started jumping on it.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
3 ALICE: And the staff told me to stop, and I said, "No, Um
not going to stop."
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you really? Good for you. (laugh) I'm
being naughty, except, um, I think that's
5 good for you to get new, for you, in particular, to get to
do that.
6 ALICE: And I finally stopped and went to goals cause I had
to do my goal. I was bad. I
7 didn't do my goal. I didn't talk to any staff people.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: How come?
9 ALICE: I don't know. I didn't like the staff last night.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Well, I don't think that's so bad.
11 ALICE: So I got a red star.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
13 ALICE: But some people didn't even get stars cause they were
in time-out during
14 goals group.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: (laugh) I don't think they'll think that's so
bad of you not to talk to staff if
16 you don't like them. But maybe it would've been okay to say,
"I don't want
17 to talk to you. I don't know you. I don't trust you. I don't
like you."
18 ALICE: But they would be mad at me then.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, that's their problem, isn't it? Even if
they get mad at you, they're not
20 allowed to hit you or be mean to you.
21 ALICE. I like to color real hard.
8
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, have a piece of paper, and let's color
real hard. Rrrrr!
2 ALICE: Real hard?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Real hard. Let's color angry hard. Rrrrr!
Yeah. Angry hard. Yes. Yes.
4 Rrrrrah! Do you know what? Look. You're not supposed to
tear off the
5 paper from crayons, are you?
6 ALICE: Yeah. Pull it out.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pull it out and just rip it off Rip it off.
Rip it.
8 ALICE: When I do, when I'm with Pat in art therapy.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: Mm, hm.
10 ALICE: ...we build up the blocks really high and knock
them over.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. That's fun, too, RRR' Rip.
12 ALICE: (Laughs)
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: That's kinda of fun, too, isn't it? Snap. It
goes snap.
14 ALICE: Urrrrr
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrr
16 ALICE: Urrrrah
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrah
18 ALICE: Urrrrrah
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrrah
20 ALICE: Urrrrrrah
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrrrah (laugh)
9
1 ALICE: (laugh)
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: (screech)
3 ALICE: (laugh) Watch me. Watch. l'm going to break this
one, too.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Good, strong, line, isn't it? Rrrrah.
5 ALICE: Is this a temper tantrum
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh?
7 ALICE: Is this a temper tantrum?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. But it feels like you're puttin some
feelings out into the ah-- and giving
9 yourself some permission to do things a different way.
10 ALICE: (Sigh, Sigh)
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: It's really hard work, huh?
12 ALICE: Urrrah. (Sigh) Gosh. Watch me. This is funny. Watch
this. Watch what I
13 do.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Okay.
15 ALICE: Okay, I'm going to make a mess. (laugh) Oops. I get it
all over my
16 fingernails. I'm gonna make a big mess cause I like to make
messes and then
17 I don't have to clean them up. Let's see. Stupid crayon. See
what a mess I
18 made?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Oh, snap it went!
20 ALICE: Once I got so mad, I smashed a marker because of that.
But I want to
21 smash those markers. They're not my markers.
10
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: So, not all the feelings always got locked
up, huh?
2 ALICE: Uh-uh.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Just the feelings that had to do with stuff
that happened, the really bad stuff.
4 I'm wondering if you had your very own notebook, if you
could write down
5 with no feelings at all one of the bad things that
happened?
6 ALICE: I don't know.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don't know?
8 ALICE: Maybe.
9 SYLVIA DA\'IS: Maybe?
10 ALICE: Go dump this all in the trash can. Wi11 the white shows
up now? Nope.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: That shows up a little bit. It's very
interesting.
12 ALICE: (laugh)
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. I'm wondering if you could write a story
about what happened?
14 ALICE: Now?
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. What do you think?
16 ALICE: I don't think so.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don't think so?
I8 ALICE: Uh-uh.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don't think so. That's a pretty good angry
picture.
20 ALICE: Uh-huh I'm going to break this one. Just color.
Sometimes the kids at
21 school get really, really mad at the teacher and they go snap
with their
11
1 pencils, and I like to laugh when they do it.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. You like it when other people get
angry, huh?
3 ALICE: Uh-huh.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
5 ALICE: What time is it?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: We're before 7:00. I met with you earlier
tonight.
7 ALICE: Oops.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Snap.
9 ALICE: I didn't mean to.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Another way to have a temper tantrum
would be to have one in
11 therapy session.
12 ALICE: Oh! How?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I could bring some things in for you to
hit with -- (inaudible) --
14 ALICE: Like the Kooshes, like y'all did that one day?
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you watch that?
16 ALICE: Can we?
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: We could do that, too
18 ALICE: Could we do that now?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I think we need a story to go with it.
Because I think it would be a
20 good idea if we got into that closet and got out some of the
feelings that
21 were stored away because I don't think it's very good for the
neck to have to
12
1 store all those feelings that...here's your angry picture.
2 ALICE: Can I keep it, and hang it up?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: And hang it up? Yes. That's a good idea. Oops.
4 ALICE: And then I can go back and color in it when I'm
angry.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. So I'm wondering if you could think
of, or maybe Claudia could
6 help you with it or maybe even there's one called Kitty.
Do you know her?
7 You do? Maybe even the three of you. together, might like
to have a
8 tantrum about something that you saw. What do you think?
9 ALICE: Can we, can we, um, can we throw them and say it?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Throw them. You can throw them and holler and do
all these
11 things, but we need to have the story first.
12 ALICE: Can I say the story while Iím throwing?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I need to have the story first cause I donít
like getting surprises very
14 much about that. Okay?
15 ALICE: Okay.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: So if have your very own story --
17 ALICE: Do you want to write it?
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Would you like me to write it?
19 ALICE: Yeah.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Okay. Do you, if you will tell me, just tell the
words, I will write it down.
21 And, um, is this a story that some of the other folks were
present for?
13
1 ALICE: No.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: No? Just you, huh?
3 ALICE: Mm, hm.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Okay. Where does this story happen?
5 ALICE: At the meeting.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Once upon a time?
7 ALICE: Once upon time, there was a girl named Bethany.
And that...
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: A little slower. There was a girl.
9 ALICE: . . . named Bethany. And once, at a cult meeting
this man was getting hurt by
10 someone else in the meeting. And Bethany got very angry
and said...
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: A little slower. Someone else in the meeting.
What was happening to the
12 man?
13 ALICE: They were hitting him.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: They were hitting him. Did you know the name
of the man who was getting
15 hit?
16 ALICE: No.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: He was just a man, huh?
18 ALICE: Yes.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: They were hitting. Where were they hitting
him?
20 ALICE: On the head.
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: On the head?
14
1 ALICE: Yeah.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: With what?
3 ALICE: A mallet.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: A mallet?
5 ALICE: Yes.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh. How big a mallet was it?
7 ALICE: About that big around.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh.
9 ALICE: It was a big mallet. And (sniff) the little girl
Bethany, got really angry.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Got royally angry?
11 ALICE: Then she said, . . .
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Got royally angry. And then what?
13 ALICE: ...and she said, "Stop hitting that man. He didn't
do anything to you. "
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: What was the man doing?
15 ALICE: He was screaming cause he was hurt.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Was he trying to run?
17 ALICE: Yes.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: How come he couldn't run?
19 ALICE: Cause they were holding him. The end.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Usually, in a good story, like, if it's a
princess, they'll say, um, what she was
21 wearing or something. Or if it was a monster story,
they'll sort of describe
15
l what the monster looked like.
2 ALICE: But I don't remember what he looked like.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: What? What's happening?
4 ALICE: Nothing. I hiccupped.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh.
6 ALICE: And the little girl...
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. And the little girl...
8 ALICE: Did you get "stop hitting that man?" And then...
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: "Stop hitting that man. He didn't do anything
to you." Uh-huh.
10 ALICE: And the little girl got took away because she was
making too much noise.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
12 ALICE: And they put her in the big room.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
14 ALICE: And she cried and cried and cried (pause) and
finally they let her out, and
15 she went home.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Who took her home?
17 ALICE: I don't know.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don't know who took her home? (sigh) Did
they always put her in a
19 room if she made too much noise? I think she would do it,
make a lot of
20 noise all the time so that they would put her in a room
so that she wouldn't
21 have to see scary stuff
16
1 ALICE: (Inaudible.)
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Wasn't it better in the room than seeing the
scary stuff? Can I guess
3 something here? Is this story partly true and partly made
up? I thought
4 maybe it was.
5 ALICE: Why?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: I just kind of partly thought that's how it
was. Also, I told you I work with
7 people that have been in the cult and are trying to get
away from it. And
S they, mostly, don't say that it's that easy to get away
from something nasty.
9 They mostly tell a different story about what happens when
something nasty
10 is happening. This is what, this is what you wished would
happen when the
11 little girl got royally angry and said, "Stop hitting
that man." Now, this is the
12 part that you wished would have happened and (inaudible).
And this was a
13 good wish. You wished that you had been very brave to be
able to say that,
14 huh? And you wished that you would have been able to get
away, and that's
15 a good wish. And that shows a very kind heart and a heart
that wants to be
16 brave and that doesn't like seeing when people are being
hurt. So this part is
17 the true part. Is that right? The true part.
18 ALICE: Is that bad to make it up?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I'm glad because this is a good story. I
just had to understand. It's
20 important to tell the truth in therapy. Okay? And this,
the truth in here is
21 that this is what you wished would have happened. This is
the wish part.
17
1 No. You're doing just fine You're not bad at all. You're a
very good and
2 very smart girl with a very good heart. But aren't you
kind of glad that I
3 could tell the difference between the true and the wish?
Shake it a little
4 harder, your head, up and down. Yeah. Because I can help
you better, can't
5 I, if I can help you be reminded of whats the true and
what's the wish?
6 Because it's evening and you've worked very hard this
session, I am
7 wondering if we could finish this story tomorrow with the
other true part.
8 Even though it might be such a nasty story, there might be
some feelings
9 leak out about it. You think that's possible? No. Do you
think you could
10 be brave enough to tell me the rest of the true story that
really happened,
11 tomorrow? That would be very brave.
12 ALICE: I can try.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: You can try, and I will help you. And I have
ways of helping you when it
14 gets hard. Okay? Yeah. Put the date on here. And we'll see
about a new
I 5 booklet for you when you go back to the room because you
deserve your
16 very own. And, now, I'm wondering if you would like to change
and do
17 . something else for a little bit? I'm
wondering. Mandy had asked to come
18 out and play.
19 ALICE: Okay.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: And I'm wondering if you'd like to watch or if
you'd participate a little bit
21 with Mandy? Do you know Mandy? Not really? Would you like to
meet
18
1 her? You're not sure? Well, Iíll tell you what. I
promised Mandy she could
2 come back out tonight, at the end of this session, and
play a bit with
3 me. She's a little bit younger than you are, I think. So
you could watch for a
4 bit if you'd like and if you Iike our game, and then tomorrow, after we
5 work on this story, if you want to do that kind of fun,
then we can do that
6 with you. Okay?
7 ALICE: Did Kitty ever tell you how old she was?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did who tell me?
9 ALICE: Kitty.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Um Kitty is, um, I think Kitty is 11.
11 ALICE: Okay.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: And you're just a little younger. aren't you?
Like, 10? Am I right? Hum? A
13 little bit younger than that? Okay. You can keep it a secret
for a while if
14 you like. It's all right. Are you looking for somebody to be
your very age?
15 No? Well, you've done a very good job tonight. Do you want to
put this on
16 the wall or have it in your journal?
17 ALICE: Journal.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah? Okay. We'll let them vacuum this up. I
don't care. (laugh)
19 ALICE: They never clean this room.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Not much, they don't. No
21 ALICE: Cause the trash can smells.
19
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, gross. (laugh) It looks like it would
smell, all right. I'm going to leave
2 these white pieces of paper in here, so we have them.
3 ALICE: In my journal?
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Uh, in Bethany's journal. Yeah Okay?
5 ALICE: Can I see? Can I draw on them?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS Uh. One. two, three, four, five. If you have
time to draw on some of them,
7 you can. Save a few for us. though. Okay? Save about three
for us. Okay?
8 Okay. Good. Okay. Good job, Bethany. You get a good star
for the day I
9 say, I say, I say. What, did you cut your finger?
10 ALICE No. I thought I wrote on it.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, okay.
12 ALICE: But I didn't.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: So, I guess I'll say good-bye for now. Do
you know your way to the ice
14 cream parlor? Okay. Antyhing else you want to say? All right.
We'll think
15 some more about anger tomorrow and about the story. Okay.
Will you
16 head off to the ice cream parlor? And I say, Mandy? Mandy?
Hi. That's
17 Alice's pen. Yeah. You ready to play a little bit? Yeah. What
do you
18 know? Anything? Well, tell me how you're getting along.
19 ALICE: Good.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Good? Yeah? Is there any, anything that's
news.
21 ALICE Uh-uh.
20
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Don't know any? Somebody told me that
Carol had hurt her knee or
2 something playing basketball or something Did you know
that, too? Is she
3 doing better?
4 ALICE: Uh-huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Were you worried about her, too?
6 ALICE: Uh-huh.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh?
8 ALICE: Uh-huh.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh A little bit. You're not talking much
tonight. There's your friend
10 Gerber back there.
11 ALICE: Will you play with me?
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. I told you that we would come and have some
play this time. Do you
13 know that you could borrow in Alice's book sometime and write
me a note
14 or something?
15 ALICE: Uh-huh.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: You can. You could do that. You could wr[i]te me
a note then I would
17 know when you especially wanted to come and have a turn or
something.
18 ALICE: Are there toys in there?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: There's toys over there, but I brought my koosh balls. I thought they might
20 be fun.
21 ALICE Can we see what's in there?
21
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: In the, in the blocks and stuff?
2 ALICE: No, in the cabinet.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: In the cabinet?
4 ALICE: Uh-Huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh, I don't have a key to that, Sweetheart.
6 ALICE: It's open.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well I, I thought maybe we might play with
some of the stuff in here first.
8 So, let me see.
9 ALICE: Can I keep my (inaudible)..?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: I don't know today. Um, you, you're going to
have to, okay...how will I do
11 this? Tap it. Can you see my thumbs? Okay, there's a, a kind
of a toy in
12 that one, and there's a kind of toy in that one. Which one
should I pull out?
13 ALICE: Mmm, that one.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh?
15 ALICE: That one.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: That one? Okay. Are you ready? This is a
very different ball. Wait 'til you
17 see what this one does.
18 ALICE: Is it...if this one starts falling apartment it makes..
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: (whisper) No, it doesn't (inaudible), right?
Right?
20 ALICE: A smush ball!
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: A smush ball! You've seen them before, huh?
22
1 ALICE: Yeah. Can I throw it against the wall?
2 SYLVIA DA\'IS: Yes. Right there. Hard as you can.
3 (Sound of ball hitting wall)
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That makes a good sound, doesn't it?
5 ALICE: This is for music.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, okay.
7 ALICE: Urrrrrah (sound of ball hitting wall)
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That makes a good satisfying sound.
Ruupp!
9 (Sound of ball hitting wall)
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That's good! (Both laugh) I'll just be
your backup back here.
11 ALICE: urrrrah! (Sound of ball hitting wall)
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Rah! Whoops! It got away from me. (Both laugh)
Ready? Ruupp.
13 ALICE: Urrrrah! (Sound of ball hitting wall)
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! Good! Rruupp!
15 ALICE: Rruupp.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Rruupp! (laugh) Rruupp! Uh-huh. Whoops! Sorry! I
threw it a little bit
17 high.
18 ALICE: You wanted to hit the wall.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: No, no! I really didn't.
20 ALICE: (Laugh)
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: I guess if I throw underhand you can catch
better, huh? Me, too. Well,
23
1 ALICE: Can I try a Koosh ball?
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Would you like to throw a Koosh ball?
3 ALICE: (Inaudible)
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. All right.
5 ALICE: Ooh. It looks like, oh, what's his name? Ziggy.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Like Ziggy? Yes.
7 ALICE: (Sound of ball hitting wall) Oh.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: That's a pretty good sound. It doesn't throw
false. It goes far. (Sound of
9 ball hitting wall) Boom! Keep your eye on where you're
throwing it, and
10 then you can get it. (Sound of ball hitting wall) Good!
You're doing it like
11 you play tennis, huh?
12 ALICE: No. It's softball. You'll like this, and you . .
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh?
14 ALICE: (Sound of ball hitting wall) Oh, I missed.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
16 ALICE: Hang on.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: That's a good tip.
18 ALICE: You go like this, and then you go...(sound of ball
hitting wall)...boom.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. That's a little, not a very good wall to
throw it at because you can't,
20 uh get around the table and chairs. (Both laugh) (Sound of
ball hitting
21 wall) All right.
Page 24 is missing.
25
1 ALICE: Here. I've got an idea.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: What? Whoopsy. I know! Let's say naughty
words.
3 ALICE: Like what?
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Naughty words like you might say if you got
mad, like, booger
5 ALICE: (Laugh) Stupid.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: And snot-head.
7 ALICE: (Laugh) Butt-hole.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, oh, oh...and Dog breath.
9 ALICE: Pissed off.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pissed off. Pissssst off.
11 ALICE: I don't know.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Dirtbag.
13 ALICE: Cheese for brains.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Cheese for brains? Very good one.
15 ALICE: Hah. You forgot.
16 SYLVIA DA\IS: What?
17 ALICE: . You forgot to say something.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh. Ah. Snooty.
19 ALICE: Punk.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Dumb-dumb.
21 ALICE: Ugly. (laugh)
26
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pooper. Oh, I made you speechless. That's the
end of that one. I have one
2 more thing because you got kind of warm playing that. See,
after you shut
3 your eyes. I'm going to cool you off a little bit.
4 ALICE: What is it? Oh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. Yes. That's, that's how they do in the
greeting cards, huh?
6 ALICE: Does it open the other way?
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: I don't think so. No. Just the one way.
Cooled off a little? That's kind of a
8 nice toy to have, sometime.
9 ALICE: Uh-huh. They won't let you have them here.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: That's right. I use that fan with a story that I
do sometimes.
11 ALICE: What does it say?
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: The story? Let me see if I can find that story
and bring it, and one of these
13 times when we have..
14 ALICE: (Inaudible)
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: (Laugh)
16 ALICE: They go like this, you go...
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah How, I've seen a tissue do it with kind of
a snap (inaudible);
18 ALICE: It may be hard to do with that. Yeah, like that. That's
it. Can I try[?]
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. Sure.
20 ALICE: (Inaudible)
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. (Laugh)
27
1 ALICE: I've seen people go...
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. I will find that story, and sometime
when we had, um, a session
3 where people have had to be very brave...
4 ALICE: Uh-huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: And work on hard feelings, then we'll
finish
it up with that kind of story.
6 And everybody can listen up. Is that still going? Oh, my
goodness! It's
7 been going all this time, you can make it go stop.
8 End of Tape.